dnsUNFILTERED: Ken Varrone, Sourcepass

[00:00:00] Ken Varrone: I'm the Chief Product Officer of the Sourcepass. And chief product is a potentially loose title right for what I do. But my primary responsibilities are around product development and software development. 'Cause we have an AP dev team internally. But I also am responsible for kinda like the market direction of our products and services and how we go to market and deliver them.

And how we fill the void for what clients need and how they're looking for specific business outcomes. My job is to find products and solutions to build that.

[00:00:31] Mikey Pruitt: Very cool. And what about your background? Like how did you get started in tech to begin with?

[00:00:37] Ken Varrone: So I started doing residential PC repair as I think a lot of folks have done in this, yeah, in this space.

They've gone to school they've worked at the Geek Squad, were equivalent. I went to school for network administration that only got me so far 'cause that's all theory knowledge and, the experience goes a lot further. Just working through residential repairs, PC repairs, got really interested in tech in general.

Went on an interview at the company called NST, which was the company prior to Sourcepass. And I lied my way through the interview to get the job. I was like, I can do this. It's not a problem. Turns out they lied about their capabilities too. We were match made in heaven and we both grew that business together.

So really interesting kind of conversation there.

[00:01:23] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah. That's awesome. It's funny, like a lot of people, mine included like story into tech, it often involves something like slightly nefarious or illegal, but you were on the straight narrow it sounds on the straight

[00:01:36] Ken Varrone: narrow. Yeah. Nothing illegal here.

[00:01:38] Mikey Pruitt: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say my journey into tech live on camera at least. But that's great. Yeah, and I imagine you've been in tech for a long time and now you're at Sourcepass. Sourcepass is a more recent addition to the DNSFilter partner through PAX eight. And I know that Sword Pass just got the partner of the year award a few weeks ago from PAX eight, which is a pretty big deal.

So tell us about like Sourcepass and how you're set apart from your competition.

[00:02:07] Ken Varrone: Sure. Everyone has these value props for their business and the value proposition is what I consider just a commodity. It's we focus on your IT so you can focus on your business. That's the general slogan for MSPs in general.

What we like to do, we like to create winning propositions, and you have your value propositions, which are commoditized, and you have your winning propositions. And your winning propositions are something that's truly unique, innovative. And as you create new winning propositions, the market eventually sees what you are doing and they catch up to your winning proposition.

And it's our job to innovate relentlessly to keep creating these winning propositions. So things that we do and just Sourcepass in general. Sourcepass is newer. MSP really went into operations March of 2022. So we're 15, 16 months into this journey. Wow. And you

[00:02:58] Mikey Pruitt: already one partner of the year?

[00:02:59] Ken Varrone: One partner of the year.

Yeah. Our strategy is unique. We're not VC or PE backed. We're, I'm gonna quote bootstrapping it for growth. We do a lot of acquisitions on the last 15 months. We've done eight acquisitions. When we have three more in flight right now. So we went from zero employees, zero revenue in February, 2022 to about 535 employees 130, 140 million in run rate revenue.

So we're growing pretty quickly. And what we're seeing in the space is it's very fragmented. There's a lot of disparate systems. All the vendors are building specifically for the MSP and not building so much for the client and the client experience. We are laser focused on clients and their experience in building the best IT experience possible.

If you go to our website the slogan on the front page is to provide an IT experience that clients love. So that's where we're unique. We're investing in the client, we're investing in our software, we're investing in innovating the space and kind of being industry leaders. I think that's a very unique proposition for us.

[00:04:06] Mikey Pruitt: So you mentioned a few things there that were peaking my interest. Interest. I think first let's talk about some business stuff, the nuts and bolts. Like you said that you guys do a lot of acquisitions. It sounds like that's really your gross strategy is to acquire other MSPs, fold them into Sourcepass using Bootstrap money by the way.

That's pretty impressive. What are some of the lessons that you've learned down this path of just acquisitions and folding those client bases and the employees and staff into source pess?

[00:04:41] Ken Varrone: Yeah. There, there's a lot of people who are doing a similar role at model. I think we have a different approach here because, we're not pe VC backed they're not really dictating what we do.

We have full control of Sourcepass, so we're operator owned. So you think of a bigger company, you think of c overlords, a suit. You'll never catch me in a suit, right? Even if you look at how I accepted the board at Pax eight, I'm in a T-shirt, right? This is just how I roll. What I say is big big business is a choice, right?

So lose your culture to big businesses. A choice. You can always keep your culture intimate, do the right thing by people and have an impact on clients, on culture, on everyone's lifestyle. And even if you're a larger company I think it affords us the ability to do more and give back to the community.

We've recently created a source past Community Impact Foundation. It's a 5 0 1 C3 organization to help donate and give back to the communities that which we serve in to clients that are nonprofits. It is just doing right by people and not being corporate.

[00:05:46] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah. That's really cool. So the role of model that you guys have is really more about being yourselves and true to who you are, and then having that culture resonate with the acquired companies. And has that always gone so smoothly?

[00:06:04] Ken Varrone: Our intentions are there to make things as smooth as possible.

It's kinda like the dating world. You're never gonna date everybody and get along with them and marry everybody, right? You want to do your best and always put your best foot forward. That's the intentions here. It's hard to come off a hundred percent to a hundred percent of the folks.

For me it's personally frustrating because for me I'm, maybe, I'm overly critical of myself, but I wanna make sure that. I'm a pleaser. Everyone's happy, everyone's taken care of and it is very hard to do. So when you have, now 500 plus people.

[00:06:37] Mikey Pruitt: So tell me about the strategy for these acquisitions, like geographically, because I know that you guys have some offices around the country, so are there like geos that you're really interested in and something that you're purposely staying away from or what's your strategy there?

[00:06:55] Ken Varrone: There's a lot to strategy but from a geographic perspective we are so heavy northeast centric. Right now, our last acquisition that we had done is in Denver, Colorado. So they get us west of the Mississippi, which is a big win for us. So we, we brought on this company called Machine Logic.

The guy, Dan and his team are absolutely phenomenal. And they're basically gonna be the Western headquarters that will be the Western expansion hub. Get us into the market that's obviously west of Mississippi. What we also look for is there's gotta be a good cultural alignment, right?

Because we wanna have our culture to the whole business. We wanna make sure that the clients are a good fit. They're in verticals that we have a lot of expertise in. We are more vertical agnostic these days just because we have a pretty big portfolio. And then, it's, it really comes down to good people, good culture, good clients and that's what we look for a match, right?

Not everyone's a perfect fit for us,

[00:07:49] Mikey Pruitt: right? You can't marry everybody.

[00:07:52] Ken Varrone: Can't marry everybody.

[00:07:53] Mikey Pruitt: So you also mentioned consolidating, disparate systems, and I'm assuming that's really focused on the tech stack and some of the things around it. I want to talk about Sourcepasses. Preferred tech stack, how and why you built it the way it is.

Like what's its purpose, what's its strategy. But tell me first about these disparate systems that you're encountering. Are there on-prem cloud, hybrid, is there like some trends that you're seeing? Yes.

[00:08:22] Ken Varrone: The, I guess from an acquisition standpoint we also look for kind of the same.

Thesis around technology, it's cloud first, cloud centric. There's a lot of productivity and when you think about security identities, the new perimeter, it's not so much bent like on from firewalls as it used to be back in the day. But the tech stack, consolidation is an important piece to us. And we don't super consolidate down to just one product and one vendor in each stack.

But we have preferred, and again, we have so many industries, verticals and different companies out there. We don't want to take a company that was using firewall A and replace it with our firewall because that's what we wanna use, because now there's a disruption to clients. The techs have to relearn that stack.

But if we're going to push something new it's gonna be ideally what's in our preferred stack. Then if there's any pushback or any concerns, we'll go with whatever we have in our portfolio, which again, is pretty big. A couple core things like R-M-M-P-S-A. CNS filter, for example, is a core, almost non-negotiable tool that has to get rip and replaced because those are fundamental to our business.

It's how we support everybody at our core. It's how we secure everybody at our core.

[00:09:37] Mikey Pruitt: That was a hell of a soundbite, Ken. So let, yeah. So let's dig into this tech stack, I love that DNSFilter is part of the, that core offering. And so when you first said like disparate, consolidating disparate systems, I was curious about how your clients are allowed to purchase.

So do you guys have like packages and it sounds like your catering, a lot to these customer needs and there may be systems that you're inheriting that you're not going to rip and replace, but, eventually you may face something in or out. But it sounds like you're not going in there with a sledgehammer and just ripping everything out and putting in this, this Sourcepass stack.

[00:10:20] Ken Varrone: Yeah, we're definitely not ripping everything out. What we like to do, we like to take clients on as is so long as they have. We'll call it this great hardware. If they have a linky, WRT 50 4G firewall or router yeah, we're gonna make a strong recommendation to replace that asap. But if you have your run in the middle firewall servers we're happy to support it.

It works well. We like to do lifecycle management and stick to that pretty tightly. Whether machines are coming up on age or hardware's coming up on age, or there's some vulnerabilities which can't be patched. It's not supported anymore. That goes into our lifecycle management so we can start to replace those systems.

If we look at backup products, DNS filtering products we'd like to consolidate those down pretty quickly just for consistency and kind of scalability.

[00:11:06] Mikey Pruitt: Just out of curiosity, what's your lifespan of a laptop? Is it three years?

[00:11:11] Ken Varrone: We try to aim for five, right? 'cause we know our clients have a sensitive budget.

And you can usually get about five years out of desktops. Laptop service.

[00:11:20] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah, I was arguing, not arguing. Conversating with our I internal IT department about how my video editing needs updated laptop. Your special, Hey Frank. But I that, yeah. That's really cool. So with these systems that you're inheriting, what is there?

Stance on cybersecurity because that's also, a lot very disparate across MSP. So tell me about, what you have inherited, what have you seen? What are the trends there?

[00:11:49] Ken Varrone: So I won't so much talk about what we've inherited. I'll talk about what I see more in the marketplace.

'cause I think that's more of a relevant thing here. What I typically find in market is a lot of people are trying to do cyber, but they're not doing it overly well. 'cause they don't understand what they don't know. Everyone has the best intentions with learning and, bringing the right tools and processes to their clients.

And what I like in the space is there's a lot of standalone cybersecurity companies which bolt on to an MSB. So you have like your core managed services offerings, which quite frankly most people do and most people do them really well. But when you get into the more advanced stuff, like the advanced security stuff, where you're talking about sim having a soc, doing MDR and making sure the R is not just reporting, but responding to it. Those are the really important things for Secure. And, for all the companies that I talk to a lot of companies just on a pro bono basis. Just I like to help the industry. You start to learn about the challenges they have and it's very consistent across the board and between all the focus groups that we run with clients and prospects they're number one concern about what keeps 'em up at high security.

So the security is the biggest piece. And then you layer on compliance on top of there you have to be CMCA certain, an IAR requirement, someone has to be sock because it's flowing through from a vendor. It's it's getting pretty complex out there.

[00:13:06] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah, that makes total sense. So you guys are acquiring some Ps obviously getting their client base, one of the large factors in these acquisitions, but I have to assume that people are coming to Sourcepass directly without being acquired per se.

Is that something that you guys have experienced too and what is your like. How are you finding these leads? Or are you, since you're acquiring so many, do you even need to go out and prospect like that?

[00:13:33] Ken Varrone: Yeah, the acquisition growth is part of our strategy, but so is organic growth. When we think about how organic growth happens, a lot of times for smaller MSPs, it's usually the owner that's going out doing sales or co-founder or something like, like that.

We've started to build up a, like a true sales team, a true sales enablement team where we have. SDRs, BDRs sales ops and start to get new logos that way, whether that's through networking events, cold calling, strategic partnerships, or just people coming to us from the web, right? Seeing post on LinkedIn and Partner of the Year award.

That stuff goes a long way. But then when you could have some good positive internet, the Google Juice. Yeah, the Google Juice. That's a good way to put that. Good Google Juice. It does help as well. And when you have good employees who are super excited about what we do and provide good service to clients I always tell people we want to provide service.

So good. You have no choice but to give us a reference or referral. We get a lot of logos from that as well.

[00:14:41] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah, that's great. So you've got two, well-oiled strategies going organic and acquisition and that's really impressive. Is there anything that stands out between those two things?

That one is easier or something like a smaller MSP could implement?

[00:15:01] Ken Varrone: I think just asking your customers for referrals are a really critical part to growth strategy. A lot of people, I, in my opinion, are afraid to ask for referrals because they're afraid of getting shot down a rejection.

But most companies, like I said are providing managed services and doing a really good job at it. That would be the easiest way to get referrals out there from a, what's easier acquiring a client like organically or acquiring through acquisition? Acquiring through acquisition feels easier, right?

Because you have to spend money to do but, I think something could get lost there. It's like you becoming a millionaire, but you do it through working hard and growing your business versus inheriting it. It's just not the same. Or we're winning the lottery, like you're not working towards it.

We sometimes forget from an acquisition that, we didn't overly work for it other than buying it. We wanna make sure that, we're not taking that stuff for granted. 'cause every client is special and I never wanna lose that part of it.

[00:15:56] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah, that's a really interesting concept.

It's like you, you had to earn the money obviously, to be able to purchase this company, but you didn't have to go out and spend five, 10 years doing Google ads and social media content to get all these customers. Yeah and you're conscious of that and actively, forcing yourself to appreciate it, even though us humans and our lizard brains are like.

Oh yeah. Great. Got it.

[00:16:23] Ken Varrone: Yeah. So many people forget to appreciate everything they have and appreciate how they got the stuff. It's always important to take a step back and reflect about what you've done as a business, the people around you that have helped you get there. Like for me, my, my role is product, but we have an amazing sales team.

We have Matt McCarthy, phenomenal. Noel, Ethan Cha, CIOs. Fabulous. My CFO, Matt is next level. All this stuff is possible because of the team that we built around us. Yeah. It's not just one person.

[00:16:56] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah. It's very cool. But let's talk about that one person just for a second. Talk about you real quick.

Who my, I think that you had a heavy hand in the cybersecurity stack for Sourcepass. Is that correct?

[00:17:11] Ken Varrone: It is one of my babies. Yes,

[00:17:13] Mikey Pruitt: I believe a little birdie told me that. So and like you said earlier, you're not like you have a preferred stack, but you're willing to work with things that are already in place.

Maybe there's a, something that is a better fit. So you're definitely flexible, but how did you craft this this tech stack that you're proud of?

[00:17:33] Ken Varrone: Yeah. Again, it's gonna be a longer answer, so tell me to get off your, no, please

[00:17:38] Mikey Pruitt: go.

[00:17:39] Ken Varrone: But from the tech stack, we've been in the space for a while, so learning about what the needs are from clients, what the flow through requirements are from their customers, of their vendors, and crafting a solution that works for 'em.

We have what we call like our. Standard security package, which is like help desk, but we include MDR DNS filtering and what we consider to be very core products. We find that a lot of companies out there are calling their advanced security suite like it includes M-D-R-E-D-R, that type of stuff.

We just consider that fundamentals and we include that in our standard security. And then we have advanced security where we start to include sim we renew vulnerability management, not just scanning. We'll do security awareness training, application whitelisting. That's where we get more advanced in where our SOC and the full capabilities really come in there.

So that's kinda like the next layer that solves all those technical challenges and technical requirements as it relates to cyber. And then we have a package which gets layered on there. If clients are looking for it. We call it just compliance. Think of CISO as a service or just advisory services where.

We're able to do risk assessments on pretty much any framework. Our G C's got something like 140 frameworks loaded in there at this point. We'll do ongoing cybersecurity management, policy writing tabletop exercises. And in my opinion, every client needs to have all three of those levels because there's either direct requirements, flow through requirements or some governmental requirements for compliance or cybersecurity in general.

But not everyone has the appetite to. Or they, yeah, so we try to work with everyone of Hey, do you need just the EDR piece? So the MDR piece, which is why we included the services.

[00:19:21] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah, and like a it sounds like you kinda have a, an elite tier, which is like compliance. And are you meeting this framework and can you prove it?

Which is really what compliance is all about. We've gotta prove it. You can't just be in asylum and be like, yeah, we're secure. You have to prove it some third part, some third party at some point. And that's not cheap either. So it's definitely a good business to be in. I I'd like to get into that a bit more but first I wanna talk about this tech stack.

And, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask what drove you to DNSFilter? What did we replace? And like, why was that, why is that included in your core offering?

[00:19:59] Ken Varrone: Yeah, so I'll call out some names here. I will never bash anyone. I'll just tell you some challenges we had, which is what kind of drove us to.

Consolidate down to DNSFilter. So we've had a few different DNS filtering stacks that had come through acquisition. We had tightened DNS, we've had Cisco umbrella and a few other ones. And the challenges could be pricing, relationship or feature sets. Like the roaming agent that is out there.

So if someone's off net, the scanning capabilities are still there. For example, one of those DNS providers that we had before that a roaming agent was not very stable and worked very well. And we were getting complaints from clients about stability, websites not loading just random outages.

We were able to tie that back to the actual agent themselves and eventually the vendor's yep, sorry, this is on us. We have to recode and you gotta wait and. If we go back to something I mentioned earlier about client experience, right? Giving an IT experience that clients love. Sometimes waiting isn't on the table even if you have the best relationship with the vendor.

So it, it really forced our hand to go back to market and find a better products. And we led it on DNSFilter and everybody from that's on our service contract with us, they get DNSFilter Pro, which is that kind of middle tier. And if they need the enterprise features for some of the rowing capabilities we will.

Attack those on, but everybody's gonna get a DNSFilter product with us.

[00:21:26] Mikey Pruitt: That's great to hear. I'm sure it is. Yeah. A little bit more about cybersecurity. So you guys are standout in that area, and you even mentioned that a lot of MSPs aren't doing it as well as they think perhaps.

How has cybersecurity offerings changed Short Sourcepass? What it really, it sounds like it's always been a part, even a core tenant of Sourcepass. And just to just go over that a little bit.

[00:21:56] Ken Varrone: Yeah. The core tenant piece is, again, the reason that we threw in MDR and EDR into our core services, just, we call it standard security.

We, there's a difference between, we'll call it infrastructure security and how you have settings set up. If we think about Microsoft, for example, Microsoft out of the box is the most insecure that you can have, right? It's got all of the conditional access not set up, it's got the legacy authentication until recently turned on.

What we wanna do is make sure the client understands, hey, there's difference between security infrastructure than monitoring and having a cybersecurity program in place. And for us, even going back years ago, my old company, NST there was a little bit of. Fear talking to clients and saying, Hey, we're actually not doing your full cybersecurity management.

Because, it was it's still a little bit of the wild west as far as cybersecurity goes, and we didn't wanna upset customers. And I find a lot of people are still on that same boat where they feel like they're exposed. But at the end of the day, you're doing yourselves a disservice and the client's a disservice because you have to manage your risk and your client's risk as it relates to it.

And we come in and say, Hey. Yes. We've acquired a company and they were doing a good job securing infrastructure. But, what about compliance or what about a full cybersecurity program and managing of that? And for us, we're not shy going in and explaining the differences and why it's so critical to a business these days.

You watch the news, you go on Reddit. There's no shortage of scares out there. It's not about shock and awe for educating on this. It's true education, showing them their risks and helping them. Identify their risks that's a big way to get a cybersecurity. Educate.

[00:23:38] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah. Education is key. Even in like sales motions. This is a reality. And speaking of that, has Sourcepassed, ever experienced any significant attacks that were difficult to handle?

[00:23:53] Ken Varrone: We've had a few prospects that we've taken on because they've had rans where they've had a significant event.

We will come and we'll do remediation recovery, some level of forensics. Typically we're working in tandem with a cyber insurance company if the client or prospect happen to have cyber insurance. But it's definitely a tricky situation because when you're coming in blind, not managing that account.

You don't know. Do they have backups? Are they validated? Do they have offsite what are their policies? Have they, turned off all their service and workstations because of the fear of their breach when you haven't had a ability to do forensics and do copies or images of the machine so you can do the forensics?

There's a lot of unknowns in that, and everyone panics and just turns everything off because there's a breach, but. Where it's getting really scary. Now, we had ransomware. It was a ransom to recover your data, but now bad actors are experts trading data and blackmailing you to pay for it. And what's really interesting is we've dealt with a few, and these bad actors have amazing customer service, believe it or not.

They have ethics. They don't have the ethics that you and I believe in, but they have ethics for their business model. And they'll publish on their website, Hey, we're gonna leak your information unless we get a payment. They'll negotiate with you, but they will also hold true to releasing that. And if you do make a payment we've always found that they've lived up to what they say they're going to do and not release that data.

So they have some ethics there, because now if you're paying them and they're releasing it any way, who's gonna pay them in the future? So it's a business model. It's a business model. I don't agree with. It's a

[00:25:28] Mikey Pruitt: business model for sure. Extortion, digital extortion, business model. So yeah, I have seen some of those sites on the dark web that are like, buy, and if they don't sell, if they don't pay, they will release it.

Like they're true to their word, like you said, true to their word, which is so odd. But that's how they make money. They have, their reputation is not of, evil hackers. It's of cutthroat business spin that are, that will do what they say they're gonna do.

[00:26:02] Ken Varrone: And security's never perfect.

Even look at the big boys, you get the Microsofts of the world, the Amazons, the Targets, they have big technology budgets and something as little as, I don't know the legalities saying this, but just repeating what I hear on the internet, like targeting their HVAC system. Something as little as that with potentially not having a BL and having it talk to all the other networks.

And being vulnerable. It's a pretty simple thing to overcome.

[00:26:24] Mikey Pruitt: Yep.

[00:26:26] Ken Varrone: You can have the biggest budget in the world and still be vulnerable. It's

[00:26:29] Mikey Pruitt: Scary. Yeah. Or even like one of their vendors is vulnerable and they're not like in, like that's actually what happened at the Target breach, I believe on that Black Friday or whatever, an air conditioning vendor who could log into targets.

Some type of portal that they have for their vendors. That person got compromised, their login credentials got compromised, the hackers logged in and then found vulnerabilities in that portal that allowed them to spread laterally and then just sit and wait on Black Friday. So when everybody started swiping those credit cards and they were just collecting all the credit card numbers.

It's like genius but terrifying.

[00:27:07] Ken Varrone: Yeah. Supply chain is such a big thing as well in this space. 'cause now think of all the agents that we're deploying as an Ms. B, you got rms, you got portals, you got filtering products, you got endpoint products. There's not one product to solve for all of it. And now you have to do your due diligence on vendors and their cybersecurity posture and are they comply and what is the risk that's in the contract?

This is a pet peeve of mine, right? What I will find is everyone just looks at the financials of a contract, right? With the vendor and they don't actually read through the Ts and Cs or have a lawyer review them, right? There's direct damages and direct damages liability things. It's, everyone has to look at that 'cause it's part of risk and part of risk manage.

[00:27:50] Mikey Pruitt: Yeah, for sure. And that's what we're in the business of doing anyway. Risk management, not just with cybersecurity, but also the contracts. You gotta pay attention to those. So I have one last question. Someone told me that you really like racing. And that you are working on getting a car to race.

[00:28:11] Ken Varrone: Yeah, so I, I do like my cars. For me, my alter ego on the internet is Porsche, Kens so you can imagine I love my Porsches or Porsche. Don't yell at me. People on the internet I call Porsche. I, I do doing racing. I've done autocross, road racing, New York safety track, all those fun all those fun events, but.

My, my next thing that I'm trying to get into is Porsche Cup cars and to get one of those cars unordered, be in the program and kind of race for Sourcepass on a Porsche Cup car team that is my next aspiration for racing.

[00:28:40] Mikey Pruitt: Awesome. Good luck with that. DNSFilter sponsors Andretti Motorsports, I'm sure oh, I'm,

[00:28:45] Ken Varrone: I know that, I'm so excited for it. So

[00:28:48] Mikey Pruitt: I've been paying attention. Do you have anything else you'd like to say about Sourcepass or about like MSPs in general? Just give some words of wisdom.

[00:28:56] Ken Varrone: Words of wisdom. I have a lot of love and respect for this industry. You'll always see me doing my best to help out.

And same thing with Sourcepass and just everything that we do for clients, for industry, for co-opetition, right? We're a big believer in it. For DNSFilter, you guys have been fantastic. Fabulous. Every great word you can put out there. You guys have been such a stellar partner for us so far.

Yeah. The relationship still, I would call it in its infancy, but. I'm looking to the future with you guys.

[00:29:24] Mikey Pruitt: That's really great to hear. Now, did you use the word co-option

[00:29:27] Ken Varrone: Co-opetition?

[00:29:29] Mikey Pruitt: Did you make that up? That's really good. I probably stole it from some. I've never, I probably heard some.

I heard it somewhere. Yeah. I'm, now I'm gonna steal it from you. That's great to hear that DNSFilter is a good partner for you guys, and that's really why we're, I even wanted to have this conversation with you, is to just scratch each other's backs. Basically, I think that's the words we used in our email, but I appreciate you coming on and chatting with me and letting us get to know you a little bit better.

[00:29:55] Ken Varrone: Yeah. I appreciate you for having me on here. It's been been a lot of fun.